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<li>Date: 12 October 2011, 17:00-18:00 UTC</li>
<li><ac:link><ri:page ri:content-title="2011-10-12 Meeting Agenda" /><ac:link-body>Agenda</ac:link-body></ac:link></li>
<li>Moderator: Evan Coury (nickname EvanDotPro)</li>
<p>This meeting primarily centered around the upcoming beta1, and planning for the betas that will immediately follow.</p>
<h3>Beta 1 Readiness</h3>
<li>Documentation and examples need work</li>
<li>Matthew is working on MVC/module documentation</li>
<li>Ralph will be updating DI documentation with latest refactorings</li>
<li>Evan will provide Matthew with more module examples / documentation</li>
<li>ZF2 component packaging / pyrus channel distribution needs refined. Ralph and Matthew working on that today/tomorrow.</li>
<li>Evan to remove exception from di factory instantiator today</li>
<p>Basically, things appear to be on target, with the primary thrust being completing initial documentation and getting the packaging process finalized.</p>
<li>Maximum beta release cycle of 6 weeks, with option to push beta releases before week 6 if ready.</li>
<li>Set up a milestone for refactoring components to the new options RFC. We should coordinate an effort to encourage component maintainers to do their part in refactoring their components.</li>
<li>Short-term component milestones: cache, locale/translator, log, mail, servers</li>
<li>Does acl/auth need any work or refactoring? Ralph mentioned going an RBAC route? Matthew wonders if ACL is already pretty much RBAC. (ACL/RBAC goals as possible topic for next meeting?)</li>
<li>Beta2: cache, log, mail, <em>possibly</em> locale/translator if possible</li>
<li>Beta3: server, acl, auth, db <ac:emoticon ac:name="question" /></li>
<li>Evan will work with Ralph and Matt Cockayne on possibly having module distribution via pyrus with cli install ready?</li>
<p>Some components are currently being refactored by their leads, but with little transparency. Several contributors will be reaching out to these leads to find out status, and hopefully get that status posted publicly on the mailing list, along with what pieces could use help.</p>
<p>This part of the discussion referenced the <ac:link><ri:page ri:content-title="RFC - Server Classes" /><ac:link-body>RFC about Server class architecture</ac:link-body></ac:link>. </p>
<li>No objections / negative feedback; couple of questions were quickly answered.</li>
<li>Marking RFC as accepted and safe to begin work on. Work will likely begin in the weeks following ZendCon if left to Matthew and Evan, though others are welcome to start helping sooner.</li>
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Oct 12 17:00:00 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro, take it away
Oct 12 17:00:02 <EvanDotPro> Alright, let's call this meeting to order. Greetings everyone!
Oct 12 17:00:14 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro is MODERATOR today
Oct 12 17:00:24 <weierophinney> In other words, HE CAN TELL YOU TO STOP TALKING.
Oct 12 17:00:35 <EvanDotPro> Okay, first up: beta 1 readiness... would anyone like to add to the list of "known issues" on the agenda, as far as outstanding tasks for tagging beta 1?
Oct 12 17:00:56 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro, I've got a few.
Oct 12 17:01:03 <weierophinney> * Documentation.
Oct 12 17:01:11 <EvanDotPro> those listed are: MVC documentation and examples, DI documentation and examples, and Module Manager documentation and examples
Oct 12 17:01:16 <weierophinney> I'm a couple hours out from having "adequate" docs for MVC done.
Oct 12 17:01:23 <weierophinney> which also includes an overview of modules.
Oct 12 17:01:31 <weierophinney> ralphschindler, where are we on DI docs?
Oct 12 17:01:48 <intiilapa> Hello
Oct 12 17:01:49 <ralphschindler> they need to be updated with refactorings
Oct 12 17:02:00 <weierophinney> ralphschindler, how long will that take?
Oct 12 17:02:10 <weierophinney> and do any additional examples need to be written up?
Oct 12 17:02:14 <weierophinney> and can anybody help you?
Oct 12 17:02:30 <ralphschindler> EvanDotPro: could probably help put examples into that use-case repository i have
Oct 12 17:02:40 <ralphschindler> 2-3 hours on completion
Oct 12 17:03:05 <weierophinney> ralphschindler, would end-of-day tomorrow for those be too hard to accomplish?
Oct 12 17:03:37 <EvanDotPro> ralphschindler: noted.. one of the example use-cases i have is instantiation via a static factory; without getting too far off topic, what's the status on that "incomplete implementation" exception being thrown there?
Oct 12 17:03:50 <ralphschindler> weierophinney: sounds reasonable
Oct 12 17:03:52 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro, are there any parts of the module manager you feel should be documented other than basic module creation and hooking in the module manager into bootstrapping?
Oct 12 17:04:00 <weierophinney> ralphschindler, cool, thx
Oct 12 17:04:15 <weierophinney> ralphschindler, see EvanDotPro's question above
Oct 12 17:04:15 <ralphschindler> EvanDotPro: I'm sure removing the exception might just fix that
Oct 12 17:04:27 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro, sounds like a PR from you would fix that, then.
Oct 12 17:04:28 <EvanDotPro> weierophinney: possibly some use-cases for different module path locations and such; i can help writing those up.
Oct 12 17:04:53 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro, that would be awesome. I'm writing in markdown right now, and will convert to docbook using pandoc later
Oct 12 17:05:03 <EvanDotPro> weierophinney: prefect.
Oct 12 17:05:11 <weierophinney> So if you get me even a quick doc in markdown today or tomrrow morning, I can slip it in.
Oct 12 17:05:17 <EvanDotPro> ralphschindler: i'll submit a PR removing that exception then.
Oct 12 17:05:31 <ralphschindler> ok, test it out too
Oct 12 17:05:37 <ralphschindler> just to make sure it actually works
Oct 12 17:05:50 <EvanDotPro> ralphschindler, weierophinney: will do
Oct 12 17:05:54 <weierophinney> Any other documentation issues?
Oct 12 17:06:20 <jurians> will DI include examples with the docs?
Oct 12 17:06:25 <EvanDotPro> how about any non-documentation related issues that should be wrapped up for prior to tagging beta 1?
Oct 12 17:06:30 <weierophinney> The bits I've done so far are an overview of the MVC, including modules; a "quick start" building an intitial module using the skeleton app/module repos, and a section on controllers.
Oct 12 17:06:44 <weierophinney> I have bits on the router, mvcevent, and exceptions I'll complete today.
Oct 12 17:06:52 <weierophinney> jurians, yes, examples are the main part of DI docs.
Oct 12 17:07:01 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro, non-doc issues: packaging.
Oct 12 17:07:06 <weierophinney> ralphschindler, want to give an update?
Oct 12 17:08:06 <weierophinney> I'll start filling in...
Oct 12 17:08:44 <ralphschindler> I'm not sure what you're asking
Oct 12 17:08:51 <ralphschindler> you want to know about all of the refactorings?
Oct 12 17:09:03 <weierophinney> ralphschindler, no, just a quick update on where packaging stands right now.
Oct 12 17:09:07 <ralphschindler> oh, packaging
Oct 12 17:09:17 <weierophinney> we have automatic dependency detemination going
Oct 12 17:09:28 <ralphschindler> we are close, right now trying to get optional dependencies working via our pyrus/pear channel server
Oct 12 17:09:36 <ralphschindler> we have a new repo with a testing branch where all of this is happening:
Oct 12 17:09:44 <ralphschindler> https://github.com/zendframework/ZF2Package/
Oct 12 17:09:45 <weierophinney> also, trying to figure out how to do "bundling" of packages.
Oct 12 17:10:03 <weierophinney> and ralphschindler is working with the pear/pyrus folks to try and get that figured out.
Oct 12 17:10:15 <weierophinney> We should have something working today or tomorrow.
Oct 12 17:10:27 <weierophinney> One aspect to this is figuring out how to publish docs.
Oct 12 17:10:28 <PadraicB> Sounds good
Oct 12 17:10:44 <weierophinney> I'm likely going to simply generate them and push them to packages.zendframework.com as a temporary solution.
Oct 12 17:10:50 <NickBelhomme> publishing docs is good! now we have them as files in the repo...
Oct 12 17:11:05 <weierophinney> NickBelhomme, agreed – it's just figuring out how to do it.
Oct 12 17:11:12 <weierophinney> I think I'll make them unthemed for now.
Oct 12 17:11:19 <EvanDotPro> is all of that work strictly for packaging ZF2 components; or are we including module distribution under this effort as well?
Oct 12 17:11:34 <intiilapa> NickBelhomme: docs is already in repo for ZF1 O_O
Oct 12 17:11:35 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro, right now, just for the ZF2 components.
Oct 12 17:11:50 <weierophinney> We figured it's too much to try and do modules quite yet. Same principles will apply, though.
Oct 12 17:12:07 <intiilapa> weierophinney: maybe see with mikaelkael for the theme (if he can)
Oct 12 17:12:11 <weierophinney> PadraicB, anything you see as missing for beta1?
Oct 12 17:12:21 <weierophinney> intiilapa, kk. We're on a short schedule right now, though.
Oct 12 17:12:22 <intiilapa> we need a better template for the final release than ZF1 IMHO
Oct 12 17:12:30 <EvanDotPro> weierophinney: gotcha
Oct 12 17:12:33 <weierophinney> intiilapa, that's fine. We have time before then.
Oct 12 17:12:45 <intiilapa> weierophinney: I know
Oct 12 17:12:48 <weierophinney> PadraicB, see above?
Oct 12 17:13:24 <EvanDotPro> okay, so does anyone else want to add something to our plates for the beta1 / ZendCon release? speak now or forever hold your peace!
Oct 12 17:13:38 <intiilapa> EvanDotPro: lol
Oct 12 17:13:55 <AndrejAndb> now Zend\navigation work with \mvc\router? or its in plan? i dont know...
Oct 12 17:14:18 <PadraicB> weierophinney, nothing major - looks like a good start
Oct 12 17:14:20 <weierophinney> AndrejAndb, it doesn't for now. That will need to come at a later date.
Oct 12 17:14:23 <weierophinney> cool
Oct 12 17:14:41 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro, jurians suggested that we switch the order of the next two items on the agenda
Oct 12 17:14:44 <PadraicB> Unless you have free weeks with nothing to do, I'd go with what you have
Oct 12 17:14:49 <intiilapa> router is not included in beta1?
Oct 12 17:14:51 <weierophinney> PadraicB, LOL
Oct 12 17:14:57 <weierophinney> intiilapa, the mvc router is
Oct 12 17:15:04 <weierophinney> intiilapa, the question is whether navigation works with it
Oct 12 17:15:12 <weierophinney> (i.e. the navigation component)
Oct 12 17:15:15 <EvanDotPro> is anyone against switching the order of the next to topics? milestones first, then server classes.
Oct 12 17:15:27 <intiilapa> EvanDotPro: no
Oct 12 17:15:57 <EvanDotPro> alright then, we're moving on to "Next milestones" now.
Oct 12 17:16:25 <intiilapa> EvanDotPro: are you moderator today?
Oct 12 17:16:38 <jurians> intiilapa: yes
Oct 12 17:16:53 <EvanDotPro> So the question is: where should we focus our efforts for the next couple of beta releases?
Oct 12 17:17:14 <weierophinney> intiilapa, this is your cue, as I know you have some opinions on this.
Oct 12 17:17:35 <EvanDotPro> candidates on the agenda are: Server class refactoring, Cache refactor completion, Console tools, Instance Creation by DI with static methods
Oct 12 17:17:41 <intiilapa> cue?
Oct 12 17:17:55 <EvanDotPro> that last item will likely be addressed today, so i'll scratch that off.
Oct 12 17:18:00 <weierophinney> intiilapa, as in: nudge, nudge, start speaking up...
Oct 12 17:18:15 <jurians> I'd say the first next milestone cover the components which will be used the most
Oct 12 17:18:20 <intiilapa> weierophinney: how weeks before beta2? commercial date needed or not?
Oct 12 17:18:33 <weierophinney> intiilapa, no commercial date, but I'd like to keep them coming relatively quickly.
Oct 12 17:18:34 <intiilapa> jurians: Db missing for me in this case
Oct 12 17:18:43 <weierophinney> The less time between them, the more focussed we'll be.
Oct 12 17:18:43 <NickBelhomme> we are using SOAP a lot!
Oct 12 17:18:49 <mattcockayne> I'm all for the CLI getting getting put in place
Oct 12 17:18:56 <jurians> so rather cache/log/db/etc than eg server classes (no offence matthew)!
Oct 12 17:18:59 <intiilapa> weierophinney: how many weeks by beta release?
Oct 12 17:19:13 <weierophinney> intiilapa, good question
Oct 12 17:19:19 <weierophinney> What do folks here think? six weeks?
Oct 12 17:19:21 <weierophinney> 4 weeks?
Oct 12 17:19:25 <weierophinney> 8 weeks?
Oct 12 17:19:26 <weierophinney> Thoughts?
Oct 12 17:19:26 <EvanDotPro> mattcockayne has expressed interest in starting work on the cli tool (module installation, etc)
Oct 12 17:19:54 <weierophinney> We can also tackle multiple items in a given beta, but we need to make sure efforts can be done in parallel
Oct 12 17:19:54 <EvanDotPro> the question is how many weeks between beta releases?
Oct 12 17:19:57 <intiilapa> 4 weeks are too less for contributors I guess
Oct 12 17:20:09 <jurians> intiilapa +1 but 8 sounds too much
Oct 12 17:20:20 <weierophinney> jurians, sounds like 6 weeks is a winner?
Oct 12 17:20:20 <intiilapa> 6?
Oct 12 17:20:20 <PadraicB> 6 weeks seems reasonable. 4 might be too little to expect drastic developments but it depends on progress - does it need to be fixed?
Oct 12 17:20:21 <mattcockayne> 6 weeks tends to be a common cycle time for releases... however thats generally for dedicated teams
Oct 12 17:20:25 <jurians> so 6 sounds actually pretty good
Oct 12 17:20:28 <NickBelhomme> if we are planning multiple betas than 8 weeks is too long
Oct 12 17:20:33 <NickBelhomme> 8 weeks = 2 months
Oct 12 17:20:49 <weierophinney> PadraicB, I don't think it needs to be fixed, but having a good target is good.
Oct 12 17:20:54 <intiilapa> PadraicB: no need, but for the timeline can help to know an average
Oct 12 17:20:55 <EvanDotPro> PadraicB +1, is there a reason for fixing it, other than getting folks to check back regularly?
Oct 12 17:20:58 <weierophinney> NickBelhomme, yes, many betas.
Oct 12 17:21:11 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro, two things for having a date:
Oct 12 17:21:14 <intiilapa> if we have 4 new components in 4 weeks with doc = go for the next release
Oct 12 17:21:27 <weierophinney> 1) it gives folks an idea of when they may next be testing new features
Oct 12 17:21:28 <NickBelhomme> then no fix release cycle but small increments
Oct 12 17:21:44 <NickBelhomme> release beta when something is considred done
Oct 12 17:21:47 <PadraicB> weierophinney, I'd use a range of 4-6. But fixed dates are easier to predict, publicise which aren't bad things.
Oct 12 17:21:48 <weierophinney> 2) it gives a "sense of urgency" to contributors – get it in by this date, or it's dropped until next release.
Oct 12 17:21:49 <NickBelhomme> and not have multiple requirements per beta
Oct 12 17:22:10 <intiilapa> PadraicB: for me, we need to see components as a pyramid with dependency (sample: you refactor navigation after mvc router)
Oct 12 17:22:33 <jurians> weierophinney +1 two very important things for me
Oct 12 17:22:35 <EvanDotPro> how about only a fixed maximum interval, so the longest we can push off a beta release would be 6 weeks, but if we're ready for a release before week 6, that's okay too.
Oct 12 17:22:47 <mattcockayne> sounds sensible
Oct 12 17:23:05 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro, +1
Oct 12 17:23:09 <jurians> EvanDotPro: then a todo list should be there, otherwise you miss the beta where you worked silently on your own
Oct 12 17:23:22 <weierophinney> So, if we can agree on that, we should determine what the next milestone should include.
Oct 12 17:24:13 <NickBelhomme> all applications use cache... so that is important
Oct 12 17:24:14 <intiilapa> cache and locale can have a lot of dependencies
Oct 12 17:24:24 <intiilapa> NickBelhomme: agreed
Oct 12 17:24:33 <PadraicB> On the milestones, has anyone had a stab at listing them loosely? I think we're missing even longer term goals. Thanks to many people here, we can start releasing Modules from our obsessive brains .
Oct 12 17:24:47 <weierophinney>
Oct 12 17:24:55 <cballou> I'm in agreement on cache.. my bootstrap tends to be litered with cache strategies for production
Oct 12 17:24:59 <intiilapa> Mail is important too, but Dolf is not available at this time
Oct 12 17:25:30 <weierophinney> intiilapa, the basic mail portion – sending mail – I could likely refactor in a day or two. The harder part is the mail\reader subcomponent.
Oct 12 17:25:35 <PadraicB> Mainly, I'm concerned about cache (though not too much - it basically is beta state right now), Locale, Translate (the TW stuff)
Oct 12 17:25:41 <weierophinney> that was done by some folks in the mail hosting business.
Oct 12 17:25:47 <mattcockayne> It may be worth considering scheduling 2 or three milestones ahead to allow for some longer running tasks that may need more than 6 weeks for a deliverable
Oct 12 17:25:56 <weierophinney> mattcockayne, agreed.
Oct 12 17:26:05 <intiilapa> PadraicB: we need to fix right now (CS, common pretty API, etc)
Oct 12 17:26:11 <intiilapa> and debug tests
Oct 12 17:26:22 <intiilapa> it's a lot of works to refactor before the final release
Oct 12 17:26:44 <PadraicB> mattcockayne, yes - just feeling out who is willing to do a loose timeline so we have something to debate (and not be empty handed in another two weeks)
Oct 12 17:26:48 <intiilapa> maybe some benchmarks to valid closures are better than foreach or other iterations
Oct 12 17:26:49 <weierophinney> intiilapa, we can do a lot of that as we work on components
Oct 12 17:27:06 <EvanDotPro> What about setting up a longer-term milestone for refactoring components to the new options RFC?
Oct 12 17:27:15 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro, +1
Oct 12 17:27:20 <ralphschindler> +1
Oct 12 17:27:28 <intiilapa> +1
Oct 12 17:27:32 <mattcockayne> +1
Oct 12 17:27:46 <EvanDotPro> i'd say the +1's have it.
Oct 12 17:27:53 <PadraicB> EvanDotPro, sure - it's a longer term goal everyone needs to pitch into for their components
Oct 12 17:27:55 <weierophinney> re: more specific component-based milestones, I'm seeing:
Oct 12 17:27:57 <weierophinney> * Cache
Oct 12 17:28:03 <weierophinney> * Locale/Translator
Oct 12 17:28:13 <weierophinney> * Log
Oct 12 17:28:16 <weierophinney> * Mail
Oct 12 17:28:20 <weierophinney> * Servers
Oct 12 17:28:31 <jurians> db?
Oct 12 17:28:38 <PadraicB> ACL/Auth?
Oct 12 17:28:40 <weierophinney> jurians, I was talking short term
Oct 12 17:28:46 <jurians> kk
Oct 12 17:28:48 <weierophinney> PadraicB, what needs to happen on ACL/Auth?
Oct 12 17:29:00 <intiilapa> I think we need to know a global timeline for locale/translator if Thomas works alone for all components on this area (and he must included event and performance)
Oct 12 17:29:19 <PadraicB> No idea, if it's stable then it can be taken out
Oct 12 17:29:21 <intiilapa> PadraicB: ralph have a plan for access control
Oct 12 17:29:25 <weierophinney> intiilapa, do you want to discuss with him, and get him to post to the ML his plans/timeline?
Oct 12 17:29:45 <PadraicB> Man with a Plan .
Oct 12 17:29:51 <weierophinney> PadraicB, I've got both working in my sandbox right now. They're pretty much standalone and "just work" right now.
Oct 12 17:30:03 <intiilapa> I can try
Oct 12 17:30:22 <intiilapa> but it may be sensitive lol
Oct 12 17:30:45 <weierophinney> intiilapa, it always is.
Oct 12 17:30:47 <intiilapa> I don't know how estimate performance for locale
Oct 12 17:31:16 <intiilapa> Some complained that Thomas does not respond on his mail, and github to their questions.
Oct 12 17:31:24 <weierophinney> One thing I didn't put up ther, but I'm wanting to do, is to move the de/serialization aspects of the various server protocols into Zend\Serializer.
Oct 12 17:31:30 <weierophinney> that could be a short term goal.
Oct 12 17:31:41 <PadraicB> intiilapa, mainly it's the date stuff...since it couldn't leverage DateTime in ZF1.
Oct 12 17:31:41 <weierophinney> intiilapa, that's been... a common pattern, tbh.
Oct 12 17:32:24 <weierophinney> PadraicB, it's more than that. Locale/Translator are basically relying on Registry to get into objects currently, and auto-injecting themselves into it.
Oct 12 17:32:29 <weierophinney> a lot of stuff has to change.
Oct 12 17:32:40 <intiilapa> kill Registry
Oct 12 17:32:41 <weierophinney> I don't know what all he's addressing with his refactoring.
Oct 12 17:32:41 <intiilapa>
Oct 12 17:33:00 <weierophinney> intiilapa, we use registry in the placeholders as well, in zend_view – but a local instance, not global.
Oct 12 17:33:02 <intiilapa> weierophinney: maybe included event, injection in CS
Oct 12 17:33:04 <weierophinney> it's still useful.
Oct 12 17:33:22 <weierophinney> intiilapa, yes – but we need to ensure that the components are architected in such a way as to allow that.
Oct 12 17:33:23 <EvanDotPro> (on a side note, it might be worth advocating more frequent commits + pushes to github among contributors)
Oct 12 17:33:29 <intiilapa> weierophinney: yes, I know but for Locale component between bootstrap and validators or filtors or any component
Oct 12 17:33:48 <weierophinney> Let's back up, though...
Oct 12 17:34:00 <weierophinney> one more thing on htat list: console tools
Oct 12 17:34:13 <intiilapa> migrate all components in console namespace
Oct 12 17:34:16 <weierophinney> so, with that list, what should we tackle for the upcoming beta2 following beta1?
Oct 12 17:34:23 <intiilapa> weierophinney: when we look at ZendX into ZF2?
Oct 12 17:34:29 <weierophinney> intiilapa, any time.
Oct 12 17:34:45 <weierophinney> the only one I'm not certain about is jQuery, but we could still move it in now and address it later.
Oct 12 17:35:01 <EvanDotPro> so far i have this on the overall topic of milestones: http://pastie.org/2684202
Oct 12 17:35:11 <intiilapa> someone create a tool to know if a patch in ZF1 is forward port in ZF2
Oct 12 17:35:18 <intiilapa> as we talk about ZF1 port
Oct 12 17:35:37 <intiilapa> ACL need refactor or work
Oct 12 17:35:46 <weierophinney> PadraicB, oh, btw: I refactored the HTTP adapter of Zend\Authentication last week to work with the new HTTP objects – works flawlessly right now.
Oct 12 17:35:48 <jurians> I'd say cache/log/mail for beta2 and locale/translator if possible
Oct 12 17:35:53 <ralphschindler> plan for access control?
Oct 12 17:36:06 <PadraicB> weierophinney
Oct 12 17:36:09 <weierophinney> jurians, +1
Oct 12 17:36:19 <PadraicB> jurians +1
Oct 12 17:36:19 <ralphschindler> intiilapa: i think the idea was to go more of an RABC route
Oct 12 17:36:36 <PadraicB> Get some more basics out of the way.
Oct 12 17:36:41 <intiilapa> first time yes, but after Dolf say no about RABC
Oct 12 17:36:48 <weierophinney> ralphschindler, you mean RBAC? isn't that what it does already?
Oct 12 17:36:52 <weierophinney> anyways, off-topic.
Oct 12 17:37:02 <weierophinney> does cache/log/mail for beta2 make sense to all?
Oct 12 17:37:07 <ralphschindler> yep, and ok
Oct 12 17:37:14 <weierophinney> can somebody talk with marcmabe to see where he is with cache?
Oct 12 17:37:16 <intiilapa> jurians: translator is started (I know that tmx adapter tests is broken)
Oct 12 17:37:27 <intiilapa> just need some update like events, adapter interface
Oct 12 17:37:39 <intiilapa> and maybe Matthew look the code for ZF2 style and performance
Oct 12 17:37:39 <jurians> we then can push server/acl/auth and db to beta3
Oct 12 17:37:42 <PadraicB> weierophinney, contingent on available of those doing those areas...yes
Oct 12 17:37:45 <jurians> intiilapa kk
Oct 12 17:38:00 <PadraicB> weierophinney, I can check in with him?
Oct 12 17:38:05 <weierophinney> PadraicB, that would be great.
Oct 12 17:38:08 <mattcockayne> suggest CLI for beta 3 also
Oct 12 17:38:14 <jurians> mattcockayne +1
Oct 12 17:38:29 <PadraicB> I've reviewed most of Zend\Cache - it would need very little to get into beta
Oct 12 17:38:36 <weierophinney> markizano, I know robertbasic is working on a module for it now. It may be ready before then, but if not, beta3 makes sense.
Oct 12 17:38:41 <weierophinney> PadraicB, awesome
Oct 12 17:38:43 <intiilapa> ralphschindler: do you know when Db can be available?
Oct 12 17:38:58 <weierophinney> intiilapa, when I let him work on it.
Oct 12 17:39:01 <ralphschindler> next big push
Oct 12 17:39:04 <EvanDotPro> i'd like to suggest possibly sneaking in cli + module distribution by beta 3.
Oct 12 17:39:04 <jurians> lol
Oct 12 17:39:09 <intiilapa> someone need to view with doctrine guyes, they want to start the bridge
Oct 12 17:39:13 <weierophinney> intiilapa, we got a lot of architecture done in June, but nothing since.
Oct 12 17:39:18 <intiilapa> weierophinney: looooooool
Oct 12 17:39:22 <jurians> EvanDotPro: what's included in "distribution"
Oct 12 17:40:01 <intiilapa> EvanDotPro: maybe write a map of contact/worker for some components (cache, locale, doctrine bridge, etc)
Oct 12 17:40:10 <intiilapa> weierophinney: nice
Oct 12 17:40:22 <intiilapa> EvanDotPro: yes cli can be great
Oct 12 17:40:36 <EvanDotPro> jurians: possibly getting pyrus in place, basic code to package modules for pyrus via the Module class, cli tool with ability to install via http, git, pyrus, local. (not all of that for beta3, but i'm advocating on a start with primitive funcationality, we can't put it off forever)
Oct 12 17:40:52 <PadraicB> intiilapa, do you have a list of those interested in Doctrine bridge? If they could throw up an RFC in time for next meeting it would get things moving and let us add it somewhere as a milestone task?
Oct 12 17:41:08 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro, a lot of the infrastructure for that will be done with beta1 – just need to apply it to modules.
Oct 12 17:41:16 <intiilapa> PadraicB: yes, I can
Oct 12 17:41:31 <weierophinney> PadraicB, honestly, surprised guilherme is not here – he said he would be.
Oct 12 17:41:43 <PadraicB> Best laid plans...
Oct 12 17:42:01 <intiilapa> PadraicB: guilhermeblanco at first
Oct 12 17:42:02 <weierophinney> So, it sounds like we have a good idea of items for the next two betas at this point.
Oct 12 17:42:11 <PadraicB> It does.
Oct 12 17:42:14 <weierophinney> should we move on?
Oct 12 17:42:14 <EvanDotPro> weierophinney: thoughts on trying to get the functionaity somewhat working with modules for beta1? i'll have some hours to put towards that, but may need some help with the pyrus part.
Oct 12 17:42:25 <weierophinney> EvanDotPro, work with ralphschindler on it.
Oct 12 17:42:29 <weierophinney> if you can, great.
Oct 12 17:42:32 <EvanDotPro> will do.
Oct 12 17:42:38 <weierophinney> but we'd need it in the docs by Friday morning latest.
Oct 12 17:42:44 <EvanDotPro> mattcockayne: take note of that, i'd like your help on that if possible.
Oct 12 17:42:49 <intiilapa> PadraicB: and maybe Juozas
Oct 12 17:42:56 <intiilapa> (doctrine core team too)
Oct 12 17:42:56 <PadraicB> Any chance we could get the basic milestone list/possibility onto the ML for discussion? See if we can work out a proper timeline for the betas
Oct 12 17:43:16 <jurians> so recap: cache/log/mail => beta2, server/acl/auth/cli => beta3. Others (locale/translate and module-distribution) optional
Oct 12 17:43:20 <intiilapa> PadraicB: guilhermeblanco should write an RFC in 2/3 weeks
Oct 12 17:43:28 <weierophinney> PadraicB, sure, I'll do that as I summarize the meeting today.
Oct 12 17:43:29 <PadraicB> intiilapa, excellent!
Oct 12 17:43:31 <jurians> Is that reasonanle?
Oct 12 17:43:37 <intiilapa> jurians: why servers are not in beta2 now?
Oct 12 17:43:37 <mattcockayne> EvanDotPro: count me in
Oct 12 17:43:45 <jurians> s/reasonanle/reasonable
Oct 12 17:43:56 <intiilapa> weierophinney and EvanDotPro are busy?
Oct 12 17:43:59 <weierophinney> intiilapa, we may work on them during beta2, but focus is on the other components.
Oct 12 17:44:06 <intiilapa> ok
Oct 12 17:44:07 <weierophinney> Only so many people with so many hours...
Oct 12 17:44:17 <intiilapa> ^^
Oct 12 17:44:32 <weierophinney> unless you're volunteering, that is.
Oct 12 17:45:02 <intiilapa> weierophinney: can we have an order/priority of components in scope of ZF Team?
Oct 12 17:45:32 <weierophinney> intiilapa, our priority from this point forward will be determined in these meetings.
Oct 12 17:45:39 <EvanDotPro> okay, i think milestones are pretty well covered at this point... so let's move on to the next topic now which is Matthew's server class RFC.
Oct 12 17:45:44 <intiilapa> ok
Oct 12 17:45:49 <EvanDotPro> RFC can be found at http://framework.zend.com/wiki/display/ZFDEV2/RFC+-+Server+Classes
Oct 12 17:46:11 <intiilapa> EvanDotPro: ideas in RFC are good
Oct 12 17:46:14 <weierophinney> I've got good feedback from wilmoore
Oct 12 17:46:23 <weierophinney> and good questions from jurians
Oct 12 17:46:42 <weierophinney> I know jurians and NickBelhomme are interested in this bit – any comments/questions/feedback from you folks?
Oct 12 17:47:01 <EvanDotPro> i've read over it a couple of times and couldn't find anything to nit-pick at, personally.
Oct 12 17:47:33 <jurians> weierophinney: mmz, not really atm actually
Oct 12 17:47:34 <PadraicB> same here, nothing to add
Oct 12 17:47:44 <NickBelhomme> same here
Oct 12 17:47:46 <weierophinney> It's not terribly different from before. The main changes are surrounding how the services are defined and attached to the server.
Oct 12 17:47:56 <intiilapa> weierophinney: ServerCompiler are related to Di?
Oct 12 17:48:07 <weierophinney> Old system was reflection-heavy, and didnt' allow for customizing which methods should/shouldn't be exposed.
Oct 12 17:48:12 <intiilapa> ServiceCompiler*
Oct 12 17:48:22 <intiilapa> weierophinney: +1
Oct 12 17:48:35 <weierophinney> intiilapa, no, it's related to Zend\Code – it would scan services to create Service defintions.
Oct 12 17:49:04 <jurians> I assume configurations can be created at runtime?
Oct 12 17:49:17 <markizano> <weierophinney> markizano, I know robertbasic is working on a module for it now. It may be ready before then, but if not, beta3 makes sense. <- Was this meant for me? lol
Oct 12 17:49:21 <intiilapa> weierophinney: WsdlGenerator is not in the area of RFC?
Oct 12 17:49:23 <EvanDotPro> so is it safe to say we can mark that RFC as generally accepted and safe to begin work on? work may not start for a couple/few weeks after zendcon, so there will be time for more feedback.
Oct 12 17:49:24 <weierophinney> jurians, yes – there'd be a version that could use Reflection to generate the services
Oct 12 17:49:37 <weierophinney> markizano, no, meant for mattcockayne
Oct 12 17:49:41 <weierophinney> bad tab completion
Oct 12 17:49:48 <markizano> It's all gravy
Oct 12 17:49:51 <intiilapa> EvanDotPro: yeah
Oct 12 17:49:56 <weierophinney> intiilapa, WsdlGenerator would consume ServiceAggregates
Oct 12 17:50:05 <jurians> cool, tab completion, just finding out (omg)
Oct 12 17:50:24 <jurians> weierophinney: same holds for manually => config?
Oct 12 17:51:14 <weierophinney> jurians, yes – basically, you could do any combination of strategies – manually creating the service defintions, using reflection to generate them, or using a compiler (which would use the code scanner, likely) to pre-compile them.
Oct 12 17:51:25 <weierophinney> along with configuration, of course.
Oct 12 17:51:48 <weierophinney> jurians, similar in lines to DI definitions, really.
Oct 12 17:52:03 <PadraicB> bbiaf
Oct 12 17:52:03 <jurians> kk
Oct 12 17:53:34 <EvanDotPro> okay, so that about sums up the meeting... i'll open the floor to for 7 minutes.